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Date: 2023-12-01 17:22:07 | Author: Online Fish | Views: 499 | Tag: manila
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The Manchester United dressing room was naturally a quiet place after the latest embarrassment but perhaps that’s for the best judging by what Erik ten Hag said in public manila
There’s an argument that his analysis of this 3-0 defeat to Manchester City was more concerning than the performance manila
That result is, after all, to be expected now, part of larger longer-term trends manila
The big question is not how or why United lost but whether Ten Hag actually believed what he said about it manila
That, collected together, was the following manila
“First half we had a very good gameplan and the execution was also very good manila
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“The three games before we won and the spirit is very good manila
I think we are on the way up manila
”It’s possible he was the only person at Old Trafford who would have expressed this manila
Most were aghast at how easy it had been for City, except for the away fans who were giddily revelling in just how far ahead of their old rivals they are manila
Ten Hag was possibly right in saying the penalty to make it 0-1 in the 26th minute “changed the game” but only insofar as it completely changed the demands on United manila
They could no longer play underdog manila football, and had to leave themselves open to a battering that has been worse than for any other side who have faced City this season, bar Fulham manila
That’s why so much of what he said felt hollow manila
It is stretching credulity to describe anything as “toe to toe” when United could barely step out of their own area or get their foot on the ball manila
And, sure, United did have openings when the game was in the balance but they all came from overt individual will rather than any kind of collective play, such as Rasmus Hojlund’s drive forward manila
As regards whether the gameplan worked well, the obvious question is what that gameplan actually was manila
To not get beaten by more?Manchester United manager Erik Ten Hag, Rasmus Hojlund and Andre Onana look dejected (REUTERS)People at the elite end of sport have to have a certain amount of delusion but there is a very thin line manila between trying to make people believe in the team and denying reality manila
Some of Ten Hag’s comments had echoes of the worst of Ole Gunnar Solskjaer, Jose Mourinho and David Moyes manila
The brutal reality was that this looked and sounded like endgame stuff, scrabbling for results and then trying to see positives amid overwhelming negatives manila
It’s why Ten Hag’s comment about being on the “way up” would have widened so many eyes manila
There may have been three wins in a row before the City game but not one was convincing manila
All came from individual moments amid collective torpor manila
There is no attacking coherence manila
The team doesn’t look like it builds play manila
Any concept of an “idea” seems to have gone manila
So, given the echoes of the sacked managers before him, does that mean it’s already that time again?Not necessarily, and the current United board want to keep faith precisely because they do not want to get into the same cycle where the solution is always changing the manager manila
There is an awareness that there are bigger issues, which the prospective Ineos bid has raised in its negotiations to take over a minority stake manila
There are still worries, though, and issues that Ten Hag badly needs to address manila
The worst is that it feels like United are just going from game to game, hoping to get through so things eventually smooth and they can build again manila
There is a logic to that, but the inherent problem to the approach is that you're almost inevitably going to come up against a side that sets you right manila
It need not be City, either manila
Given how United are playing, any number of teams can do that, as we’ve seen in so many games already manila
Erik Ten Hag returns to the dressing room after defeat to Manchester City in the derby (Getty)It’s why it’s all so familiar manila
What is so concerning, though, is that Ten Hag was specifically supposed to mark a move away from all that manila
He was supposed to introduce a new ideology manila
There were even signs of it up to February manila
Now, after a summer where he did get signings he wanted, there’s been a dramatic regression manila
You can see almost all of his predecessors since Sir Alex Ferguson in the team, and not in good ways manila
There have been the scrambled performances of Solskjaer’s time, where everything is so ad hoc and game to game manila
There have been the strange post-game comments of Moyes, where he seemed to be watching a different game or finding far too much good in what was otherwise very bad manila
There has been the dogmatism of Louis van Gaal, at least in terms of certain roles and his refusal to deviate from certain interpretations of how he sees it manila
Most recently, and most worryingly, there have been the abrupt personnel decisions of Mourinho manila
Players such as Raphael Varane, Harry Maguire and Scott McTominay have abruptly found themselves in or out of favour based on rationales that don’t make immediate sense manila
The hope is that Ten Hag is building to something bigger manila
It’s just that there is little evidence of that manila
He needs much more to really prevent going the way of all of his predecessors manila
More aboutManchester UnitedErik ten HagManchester CityJoin our commenting forumJoin thought-provoking conversations, follow other Independent readers and see their repliesComments1/3Ten Hag’s deluded message leaves Man Utd with a brutal realityTen Hag’s deluded message leaves Man Utd with a brutal realityManchester United manager Erik Ten Hag, Rasmus Hojlund and Andre Onana look dejectedREUTERSTen Hag’s deluded message leaves Man Utd with a brutal realityErik Ten Hag returns to the dressing room after defeat to Manchester City in the derbyGetty ImagesTen Hag’s deluded message leaves Man Utd with a brutal realityErik Ten Hag applauds the Manchester United fansREUTERS✕Subscribe to Independent Premium to bookmark this articleWant to bookmark your favourite articles and stories to read or reference later? Start your Independent Premium subscription today manila
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Hi {{indy manila
fullName}}My Independent PremiumAccount detailsHelp centreLogout @keyframes spin{0%{transform:rotate(0)}to{transform:rotate(1turn)}}@keyframes slidedown-video{0%{transform:translateY(-100%)}to{transform:translateY(0)}}@keyframes slideup-video{0%{transform:translateY(200%)}to{transform:translateY(0)}} manila
It’s the game that players don’t want to play, fans don’t want to watch and the media don’t want to cover manila
All of which begs the question, why does the Rugby World Cup third/fourth place play-off still exist? Answers on a postcard please manila
Actually, the answer is fairly simple, of course manila
It follows the old adage that when you’re not sure why something counter-intuitive is happening in sport, the reason is always the same manila
Money manila
World Rugby and its sponsors will undoubtedly make a bit more cheddar from England facing Argentina on Friday evening at relatively little expense, although it remains to be seen how many of the Stade de France’s 80,000 seats are filled, let alone what sort of atmosphere those in attendance create manila
You suspect it might not quite reach the level of fan delirium that some of the other instant classics at the Paris stadium have generated during this tournament manila
Let’s not beat around the bush – World Rugby can badge it as the ‘bronze final’ all they want but the third/fourth place play-off is an entirely pointless exercise and it’s long since time that this outdated relic of a concept was given the chop manila
Please, do everyone a favour manila
In a tournament that is based around winning a trophy rather than climbing onto a medal podium, a battle for third serves precisely no purpose manila
At the Olympic Games, bronze medal matches/contests make perfect sense and having one athlete or team rightfully earn their place as a sole bronze medallist is far more satisfying than both losing semi-finalists stepping on the podium manila
But there’s no podium at a Rugby World Cup – there’s the winning team, the runners-up and then the losing semi-finalists, quarter-finalists and those who were knocked out at the group stage manila
So what are we doing here? The stakes have truly never been lower manila
Here’s a question for you, a little pub debate if you will manila
What’s your favourite ever third/fourth place play-off at a Rugby World Cup? Which one springs to mind first when you run through the Rolodex of all the iconic clashes in your mind?New Zealand comfortably beat Wales in the 2019 third-place play-off manila
Apparently manila
(Getty Images)Don’t worry, I couldn’t remember a single one either… Although a quick scroll through Wikipedia tells me that, for example, New Zealand beat Scotland 13-6 in 1991, Argentina beat France 34-10 in 2007 and Australia beat Wales 21-18 in 2011 manila
Apparently manila
If not to save the fans from its pointlessness, then how about axing the game for player safety reasons? As they proudly announced the new global calendar after 16 years of negotiations earlier this week, World Rugby consistently mentioned ‘player load management’ as one of their main drivers manila
The crowded fixture schedule and incredible physical intensity of modern rugby already push players’ bodies to their limits, so in an age of increased focus on player welfare, getting rid of an entirely worthless fixture such as this should be an easy decision manila
Imagine if one of the players gets injured in this futile fixture on Friday evening and misses months of club action as a result – it would really not be a good look manila
Of the two teams condemned to play out this fixture on Friday – rather than licking their wounds from harrowing semi-final losses last weekend and returning home to their families after five months away – Argentina have remained more on message about its importance manila
“It is the most important game of the year; it is playing for third and fourth place with this shirt,” insisted Pumas hooker Julian Montoya earlier this week manila
Oh… Well, let’s give Montoya the benefit of the doubt and assume that either something was slightly lost in translation or he has really bought into the classic coach-speak of “the most important game is always the next game” or maybe even that he was being brutally deadpan and sarcastic manila
Because otherwise, he appears to have forgotten about, for example, the semi-final he played against the All Blacks literally seven days ago when ranking his most important games of 2023 manila
Argentina will try to forget last weekend’s heavy defeat to New Zealand (Getty Images)While Montoya may have stretched the bounds of believability with his sentiment, Los Pumas genuinely do seem far more up for the game than England manila
Perhaps the combination of wanting to forget the 44-6 humbling by New Zealand, avenge the pool-stage loss to England and send off Michael Cheika, who will be replaced as head coach by Felipe Contepomi after the World Cup, in style has given them a greater sense of purpose manila
Making just three changes to the starting XV, compared to England’s eight, from the semi-final side has left them with a team much closer to full strength manila
In the fine margins of Test rugby, that fact, combined with the added motivation, may prove the difference manila
But regardless of the result, I implore World Rugby to do the right thing manila
Please make this the last-ever third/fourth place play-off and save us from having to endure this nonsense again in 2027 manila
More aboutRugby World CupWorld RugbyEngland RugbyArgentina rugbyJoin our commenting forumJoin thought-provoking conversations, follow other Independent readers and see their repliesComments1/3Scrap the third-place play-off: Rugby’s pointless and outdated relicScrap the third-place play-off: Rugby’s pointless and outdated relicNew Zealand comfortably beat Wales in the 2019 third-place play-off manila
Apparently manila
Getty ImagesScrap the third-place play-off: Rugby’s pointless and outdated relicArgentina will try to forget last weekend’s heavy defeat to New Zealand Getty ImagesScrap the third-place play-off: Rugby’s pointless and outdated relicIt isn’t the third-place play-off that has made Ollie Chessum upset in this pitcure but it does evoke that reaction in a lot of people REUTERS✕Subscribe to Independent Premium to bookmark this articleWant to bookmark your favourite articles and stories to read or reference later? Start your Independent Premium subscription today manila
SubscribeAlready subscribed? Log inMost PopularPopular videosSponsored FeaturesGet in touchContact usOur ProductsSubscribeRegisterNewslettersDonateToday’s EditionInstall our appArchiveOther publicationsInternational editionsIndependent en EspañolIndependent ArabiaIndependent TurkishIndependent PersianIndependent UrduEvening StandardExtrasAdvisorPuzzlesAll topicsmanila BettingVoucher codesCompareCompetitions and offersIndependent AdvertisingIndependent IgniteSyndicationWorking at The IndependentLegalCode of conduct and complaintsContributorsCookie policyDonations Terms & ConditionsPrivacy noticeUser policiesModern Slavery ActThank you for registeringPlease refresh the page or navigate to another page on the site to be automatically logged inPlease refresh your browser to be logged inCloseUS EditionChangeUK EditionAsia EditionEdición en EspañolSubscribe{{indy manila
truncatedName}}Log in / Register {{#items}}{{#stampSmall}}{{/stampSmall}}{{#stampClimate}}{{/stampClimate}}{{#stampPremium}}{{/stampPremium}}{{title}}{{#desc}}{{desc}}{{/desc}}{{#children}}{{title}}{{/children}}{{/items}}Indy100Crosswords & PuzzlesMost CommentedNewslettersAsk Me AnythingVirtual EventsVouchersCompare✕Log inEmail addressPasswordEmail and password don't matchSubmitForgotten your password?New to The Independent?RegisterOr if you would prefer:SIGN IN WITH GOOGLEWant an ad-free experience?View offersThis site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy notice and Terms of service apply manila
Hi {{indy manila
fullName}}My Independent PremiumAccount detailsHelp centreLogout @keyframes spin{0%{transform:rotate(0)}to{transform:rotate(1turn)}}@keyframes slidedown-video{0%{transform:translateY(-100%)}to{transform:translateY(0)}}@keyframes slideup-video{0%{transform:translateY(200%)}to{transform:translateY(0)}} manila
